Classifieds Real Estate Jobs Cars Return to post-gazette.com Shopping

Event Calendar

-->
Last post made 8.21.2009 (12:21 PM) by CCK. 9 replies.
  • Heather (2,059 posts) ::8.12.2009 (2:17 PM)

    I admit, I've blissfully stuck my head in the sand this summer and refused to read anything much "newsworthy"

    So I find myself embarassingly behind on my knowledge/understanding of this new health care idea that has everyone so hot under the collar.

     

    So, anyone want to point me to some good explaination/recap, or provide one yourself?

    What are your thoughts on the plan? I'm reserving my judgement until I learn more...but I'm curious to hear what everyone else things.

     

    Heather*
    General Manager
    PittsburghMom.com

     

  • Julia_Mom (33 posts) ::8.14.2009 (12:11 AM)

    For learning, you may want to read this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-92259/Women-kept-waiting-breast-cancer-tests.html about how UK health systems deals with breast cancer and watch The Barbarian Invasions, a 2004 Oscar-winning Best Foreign Language Film that illustrates Canadian health system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Barbarian_Invasions). 

  • rapchef2 (18 posts) ::8.16.2009 (11:58 PM)

    Well I don't know if I want to get lamb-basted by revealing my leaning on a board.  It seems that it is painfully dangerous to admit where you stand!  I will say that it's important to only consider sources that actually QUOTE and reference sections of the bill.  I've seen a lot of name calling and groups referred to as stupid or crazy because of the "myths" they believe, but I haven't seen any of them that can pull out a section of the bill to dispute the arguments.  In fact, I was quite annoyed at some articles in the paper today that continued along that line.  Okay, so you've likely guessed I'm probably one of the "crazy" group against the bill.  Yes, I am.  But not because I'm ignorant of the facts, it's because I've been reading the facts...direct portions of the bill itself.  I've researched the European and Canadian health care problems.  I've read many, many articles from BOTH sides.  I don't have time to look up and paste all the sites and articles I've read, but offhand, here's one.  While many people may strongly dislike (and I've heard much harsher terms) Sarah Palin, her facebook page has sections directly from the bill and logical, intellectual reasons for why  she is against it.  http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/notes.php?id=24718773587  (there are different articles on different days...take the time to go through them)  While people have poked fun at her "death panel" comment, there is a very real opening in the bill for the government to make our decisions for us.  Of course they don't call it a death panel, that would be absurdly suicidal for them to do so.  But the bill does call for a group of individuals who will determine whether procedures are "cost effective".  If it's not cost effective for you to take certain medication or have procedures done, you won't get them.  As a matter of fact, the preparations for that panel and cost-effective research was already passed into law in the stimulus bill.  Anyway, don't just settle for what pundits and journalists interpret the bill to be.  See if they make reference to the exact sections and go read them.  I'm telling you, I have not seen one single advocate FOR the bill cite a section to disprove the arguments against it.  It's because they can't prove their opposition to be incorrect.  They just repeat their same talking points.  For example, they may say "there's no death panel", but they can't say the bill prohibits anyone from making those decisions.  They don't want you to read the section that refers to this group who will make those "cost-effective" decisions.  And when they do talk about cost effectiveness, they act like they are talking about buying a name-brand versus store brand.  They don't want you to put a face on it.  What this cost-effective thing means is that if you are 70 years old and discover you have cancer, it won't be cost-effective to treat your cancer because you are too close to death.  It means that if you have a newborn baby needing intensive life-saving treatment, she is not likely to receive it because it is less likely for that newborn to survive to be a productive member of society.  This type of health care provides the most for ages 15-40, and ages outside those markers are not as much priority. 

    There is so much more to this whole thing.  Listening to what people say just isn't enough.  Be fair and listen to both sides, then absolutely, positively read the sections of the bill which the opponents cite and see if they are telling the truth.  I'm telling you, they are.  Health care may need to be reformed, but not this quickly and without a very careful, thoughtful process.  I know I'm happy they didn't vote on this in August as planned because no one in Congress had even read it yet!  How can they even consider voting on such a gigantic bill with such life changing consequences for all of us without reading it? 

    So there's my two cents.

     

     

     

  • Jaime (72 posts) ::8.17.2009 (6:51 PM)

    Very well said Rapchef!    Thanks for taking the time to post this. 

  • Honoria Glossup (37 posts) ::8.18.2009 (9:19 AM)

    My $.02:

    It is disheartening how successful the scare tactics employed by the forces against healthcare reform have been. A lot of these arguments just don't make sense if you stop to think about it.  For example, a group of people making cost effective decisions about health care has been made out to be so ominous, but guess what? It already happens and it's called your insurance company (if you're fortunate enough to have health insurance). My insurance company has refused to cover a medicine prescribed by three different specialists for my dd's eczema. If I decide that the docs are right and it's the best thing for her I can pay $185 a pop. And I have relatively decent health insuance for which I pay over $1200 every month. Also, I know of a cancer patient who was ready to start a treatment that could save her life. She went through all the tests, appointments, etc. Days before it was to begin the insurance company, which had already approved it and paid for all of the preliminary tests, called her to say it they wouldn't pay for it because they were classifying it as a clinical trial, which is most certainly is not. So she gets to deal with the stress of fighting the insurance company and the treatment is delayed for this very aggressive cancer. It is heartbreaking and is here in the US not Canada or the UK. This doesn't even get into the people who are bankrupted by medical bills because they don't have coverage. Something has got to change and I think Obama and his team are doing their best to get it done right.

  • rapchef2 (18 posts) ::8.18.2009 (12:53 PM)

    I still have to respectfully disagree.  Yes, the insurance companies do decline coverage and that is a problem that needs to be addressed.  But the solution is not to put the government in charge of those decisions.  And it is ominous if you take the time to look.  I watched a documentary produced by a young man who grew up in Canada with their health care system.  There are long waiting lines to see doctors.  You can not be seen for serious problems like diabetes or cancer often for years.  By then it's too late.  One woman lost both her legs to diabetes because the government run system did not allow her access to a doctor for 2 years.  A woman in the UK almost lost her life to cervical cancer because the UK did not cover screenings until age 21 rather than 18.  Take a look at news this week in the UK.  To be more "cost efficient", the government has told doctors NOT to see patients with swine flu symptoms and patients are to call a hotline.  A teenager was prescribed Tamiflu over the phone by this hotline, but continued to get worse.  She was taken to the hospital days later and DIED because she had tonsilitis and no doctors had seen her.  Tonsilitis!! Since when should that be deadly with today's medical options?  The infection spread into her lungs, causing them to collapse and she died.  A 4 year old girl was misdiagnosed over the swine flu hotline and by a paramedic and she died of meningitis.  This is not a made up story, it's actual news from this week.  Here's the link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206908/Swine-flu-diagnosis-phone-scrapped-says-father-daughter-died-tonsillitis.html.  Just because the government tells us the health care plan doesn't set up a health care hotline like Europe doesn't mean that they don't plan to do it eventually because it's more cost effective. 

    I happened to catch a "truth check" segment on CNN that also was annoying.  A woman had written a letter "claiming" that the health care plan would mean that people with macular degeneration would be forced to go blind in one eye before treatment would be given for the other eye.  The CNN correspondent, in a misleading manner, dismissed this argument saying the health care plan does not call for that.  She missed the whole point.  True, the health care plan does not spell out specifics.  The problem is that it leaves treatment decisions in the hands of the government, allowing them to determine what gets treated.  Because this particular topic is one I researched myself months ago, I know exactly what the woman was referring to.  In Britain, the government did in FACT refuse treatment for macular degeration until one eye had been lost to blindness.  The woman's letter to CNN was simply pointing out that the same thing could happen here when our decisions are left to the government.  The correspondent claimed it was a myth because it wasn't in the bill, but it's not a myth that this happens in Britain.  Here are just two of many links to see for yourself.  By the way, several of the articles I read from Britain specifically referred to their system as "socialized medicine"  http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2007/01/healthcare-and-humiliation-going-blind.htmlhttp://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/publicwebsite/public_pr130808.hcsp

    If I didn't have three kids to take care of, I would gladly look up a million more links to truthful articles to point out the potential problems of letting the government have more say over our medical care.  I must encourage everyone again not to just listen to the talking points.  Just because CNN, MSNBC, ABC and CBS are referring to "scare tactics" and "uneducated mobs" doesn't mean you should believe them any more than you should believe a rich celebrity who thinks we should have national health care when he has a billion dollars to pay for private doctors.  You can not trust anyone to report to you the facts of what is going on.  Research, research.  And for those who say you can't believe everything you read online (such as the CNN lady referred to above), no you can't just believe online opinions.  But aren't they shooting themselves in the foot because the AP puts articles on line and they put their own views and articles online?    What you can believe is the facts of how this works in other countries.  And you can believe what is written in the bill they will vote on in Congress.  If they have a clause in that bill that allows even the tiniest of footholds into health care decisions, you can bet they will expand that every year until we get to the single payer system that they want.

    Again, there are problems with the healthcare of 45 million people (if that is truly an accurate figure).  But why create even larger problems for the remaining 250 million people left in the United States who do have healthcare?  Don't change it for everyone.  I've lived in three states and I have to agree that one of the simplist solutions that would solve several problems is opening the state lines to allow you to purchase coverage offered by insurance companies in different states.  More competition always leads to lower prices (Ebay has walloped the collectible card and antique industries because people now see how many choices there are when they aren't limited to local shops!).  It's frustrating when you live in a state like NY (been there) and have to pay three times as much as what someone in Kentucky is paying.  Crossing state lines alone will offer benefits to not just the uninsured and underinsured, but will allow cost savings to all of us!

    My kids are tearing the house apart so I'll stop my lecture now, but please don't just listen to the news and judge based on that.  You will  not get an accurate picture. 

Page 1 of 2 (10 items) 1 2 Next >
Terms of Use Edit My Profile About Us Blogs Directories Forums pittsburghmom.com pittsburghmom.com